There are 4 wide-angle L prime lenses coming in the next 12 months [CR2]

entoman

wildlife photography
May 8, 2015
1,400
1,754
UK
To think anything else is sheer blasphemy, and should be actively discouraged, because saying negative things about a camera or lens (no matter how factual) makes people who bought these lenses feel bad.
How very true.

It doesn't always occur to everyone, that those of us who criticise a Canon product have actually spent tens of thousands of pounds/dollars on Canon gear over a period of years, and thus feel fully entitled to criticise on those occasions where we feel Canon has made a misjudgement or produced a sub-par product.

I personally provide direct feedback to Canon, negative and positive, as do many others, in addition to comments made here or on other forums. It's actually to the benefit of everyone that negatives as well as positives are publicly reported too, as it keeps manufacturers on their toes and ultimately results in product improvements.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
Upvote 0

Del Paso

M3 Singlestroke
CR Pro
Aug 9, 2018
2,020
2,444
You didn't like my prospective lens review? :(

What do you mean by negative? Who mentioned anything about negatives? Certainly not me about the wonderful 12mm f/1.8 lens! :oops:

Those are not negatives, they actually all 'features' that this modern lens is designed to have. It's 'designed to use software lens correction', which makes it smaller, lighter, and that's a sign technological progress! Why would you think otherwise? What do you have against extending lens elements on focus, and STM motors? Are you a Canon hater? ;)

Nobody needs edge or corner sharpness except people who can afford very expensive L series lenses. Every new photographer and person on a budget should only do hiking and travel photography, and possibly only vlogging video, and therefore only need these convenient light and compact lenses. It doesn't matter that these lenses use less lens elements and cheaper plastic aspherical lens elements (but cost more than a properly optically corrected lens), because that's a superior design, being part of Canon's new strategy for lens offerings on the RF platform, and we should be eternally grateful for that. :)

How can I be so sure? Easy! I read all the pro-Canon posts defending the RF 16mm f/2.8 lens, and I memorised the reasons why it was good and had no limitations or shortcomings, so I know I'm right! :D

Negatives, no way! To think anything else is sheer blasphemy, and should be actively discouraged, because saying negative things about a camera or lens (no matter how factual) makes people who bought these lenses feel bad. Only an internet troll or Sony fanboy would do such a heinous thing to a loyal Canon buyer. We need to reward brand loyalty by affirming and validating people's buying choices at every opportunity. When they buy something new, because they believed Canon's marketing hype, and experienced buyer's remorse afterwards when the product failed to live up to real-world expectations, we need to lift their spirits and assure them that they have the best gear, so they stay loyal to the brand. We need to maintain faith in all the company's actions, no matter how confusing or questionable they may seem. In fact, it's best not to ask question, just trust, and Canon will deliver. It's not willful ignorance as some people claim, things just work better that way. :sleep:

The lens is almost perfect. The only disappointment is that the aperture is too bright/wide, shame it isn't f/6.3 or darker like some of the other consumer RF lenses we've grown to love. :( Who needs fast apertures anyway? Canon says we don't! It just makes the lens unnecessarily heavy. The high ISO performance of modern sensors means that we can use this lens at f/22 and ISO 102,400 and the images would still look awesome, and the fact that we've only got 2.47EV of dynamic range doesn't matter because of the superior image quality coming from the advanced sensors in the new RF camera bodies. :cool:

Besides, we have plenty of choices anyway. For anyone who doesn't like the US $900 12mm f/1,8 STM, which will sell for £1,100 in UK and $2,000 in Australia they can wait 6 years when Canon will release the L-series version for US $2,600. Any decent client should be happy to wait at least half a decade until a photographer can get the right lenses, otherwise they're being unreasonable. People can also buy the EF 11-24mm f/4L for US $2,999 and use that with an adapter, then just crop to 12mm, and blur the background a bit more in Photoshop. I can't believe why people complain so much! :rolleyes:

<end sarcasm> :ROFLMAO:
Still fine...
The lens doesn't exist yet.
Nobody has seen it.
Nobody has reviewed it.
Nobody knows its characteristics.
Apart from you, it seems...
Sorry, but I find it silly to debate the quality of a non-extant lens.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Upvote 0

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Jul 21, 2010
28,090
8,303
It doesn't always occur to everyone, that those of us who criticise a Canon product have actually spent tens of thousands of pounds/dollars on Canon gear over a period of years, and thus feel fully entitled to criticise on those occasions where we feel Canon has made a misjudgement or produced a sub-par product.
Even those who have not spent tens of thousands of dollars/pounds on Canon gear are entitled to criticize. But if you believe that people are also entitled to draw broad conclusions about the corporate impact of the issues they find distressing, we're going to disagree.

"My R5 overheats, Canon screwed up and needs to fix this!" – fine

"I have read a bunch of reports on the R5 overheating, I'm not going to buy an R5." – fine

"The R5 overheating is a huge problem, I'm going to buy a Sony instead because they don't overheat." – fine (although 'they don't overheat anymore' would be more accurate)

"The R5 overheating issue is a debacle, R5 sales will plummet, everyone will switch to Sony, and Canon will suffer." – asinine (yet an accurate paraphrase of many comments on Internet forums)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 users
Upvote 0

LogicExtremist

Lux pictor
Sep 26, 2021
501
351
How very true.

It doesn't always occur to everyone, that those of us who criticise a Canon product have actually spent tens of thousands of pounds/dollars on Canon gear over a period of years, and thus feel fully entitled to criticise on those occasions where we feel Canon has made a misjudgement or produced a sub-par product.

I personally provide direct feedback to Canon, negative and positive, as do many others, in addition to comments made here or on other forums. It's actually to the benefit of everyone that negatives as well as positives are publicly reported too, as it keeps manufacturers on their toes and ultimately results in product improvements.
Agree, I like to have a realistic perspective about the limitations of my gear, so I can get the most out of it. If someone says that my cheapest RF lens, the RF 50mm f/1.8 is crap, and has bad bokeh, I don't take it personally. Yes, it has its limitations for a budget lens. I know that stopped down it's incredibly sharp, and is quite good at f/2.0, with excellent sharpness from f/2.8 through to f/5.6, with best edge sharpness from f/4 to f/5.6. I'm mindful not to select busy backgrounds for best out of focus backgrounds/bokeh, and while it's no Canon L lens or Sigma Art lens it does the job. I wouldn't know any of that, and I would have to spend lots of time work all that out for myself after buying the lens first, if people didn't do tests and make objective and factual criticisms of the lens performance. Reading the criticisms, I was happy with the compromises, so I bought it. Reading the same for the RF 16mm f/2.8, I wasn't happy with what I read so I didn't buy it. Highlighting both the strengths and shortcomings of a product, without bias, helps others make informed buying decisions.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Upvote 0

LogicExtremist

Lux pictor
Sep 26, 2021
501
351
Even those who have not spent tens of thousands of dollars/pounds on Canon gear are entitled to criticize. But if you believe that people are also entitled to draw broad conclusions about the corporate impact of the issues they find distressing, we're going to disagree.

"My R5 overheats, Canon screwed up and needs to fix this!" – fine

"I have read a bunch of reports on the R5 overheating, I'm not going to buy an R5." – fine

"The R5 overheating is a huge problem, I'm going to buy a Sony instead because they don't overheat." – fine (although 'they don't overheat anymore' would be more accurate)

"The R5 overheating issue is a debacle, R5 sales will plummet, everyone will switch to Sony, and Canon will suffer." – asinine (yet an accurate paraphrase of many comments on Internet forums)
All sounds totally reasonable! :)
The last point though, is slightly inaccurate, it falls short of what we actually see, and should read "...and Canon will be d00med!" :ROFLMAO:
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Upvote 0

LogicExtremist

Lux pictor
Sep 26, 2021
501
351
Still fine...
The lens doesn't exist yet.
Nobody has seen it.
Nobody has reviewed it.
Nobody knows its characteristics.
Apart from you, it seems...
Sorry, but I find it silly to debate the quality of a non-extant lens.
Oh, Del Paso, I hope you realise that the first post was mocking Canon's new strategy for consumer lenses, and the second, longer post was mocking some of the things that happen on this forum! :)

Seriously, this lens could be great or not so great, and nobody will know until it's released and independently tested. It's curious how much conversation a lens that may not yet exist can generate on a photography rumours forum!

In the line of budget primes, I'm hoping this is more like the RF 35mm f/1.8 macro in IQ, and less like the RF 16mm f/2.8, but then again, I have no use for a 12mm focal length.
 
Upvote 0

SwissFrank

1N 1V 1Ds I II III R R5
Dec 9, 2018
93
59
For example, there was a patent with four f/2.8 primes (10, 14, 16, and 20mm) that published in June. CRguy erroneously called them APS-C lenses, but the 16/2.8 in that patent was the one that was already a product by then. Similarly, a few weeks ago a patent published on three wide f/1.8 primes (21, 24 and 28mm), CRguy again mistakenly called them APS-C lenses but one of them was the RF 24mm f/1.8 Macro that was announced the month before.
Maybe if you could read Japanese you wouldn't look like such a gibbering idiot.

I haven't yet read a Canon patent on a specific lens. All the ones I see are on lens formulae and the specific lenses described in the patent are merely examples of the formulae being put into practice. The patent will cover for instance: a lens of at least 8 groups whereby the first group has a positive diopter, the second group etc. etc. It's a generalized recipe. They then show you different things you can make with that recipe.
 
  • Wow
Reactions: 1 user
Upvote 0

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Jul 21, 2010
28,090
8,303
Maybe if you could read Japanese you wouldn't look like such a gibbering idiot.

I haven't yet read a Canon patent on a specific lens. All the ones I see are on lens formulae and the specific lenses described in the patent are merely examples of the formulae being put into practice. The patent will cover for instance: a lens of at least 8 groups whereby the first group has a positive diopter, the second group etc. etc. It's a generalized recipe. They then show you different things you can make with that recipe.
Grow up.

As for the patents, perhaps you've missed the fact that they also contain specific embodiments (examples) of lens designs. In the case of the patent for the three f/1.8 prime lens designs, here is the figure from the patent for Example 3, with focal length 24.72mm and f-number 1.85, and below it is the block diagram of the recently-launched RF 24mm f/1.8 lens. Do you notice any similarity between the exemplar diagram representing an embodiment of an optical formula, and the optics in the corresponding production lens?

Screen Shot 2022-08-27 at 7.55.49 PM.png

The patent on f/2.8 wide primes included the design for the RF 16/2.8, which is obvious from a comparison of patent example diagram to production lens block diagram like the one above. Also, that patent was filed with the USPTO, and published in English. :whistle: The design for the RF 16/2.8 is Embodiment 3.

Obviously, not every embodiment in every patent becomes a product. In many cases none of them do, and many patents are filed not to protect specific designs intended to become products but to block competitors from using those designs.

Incidentally, I can't count the number of times I've posted on this forum that patents are optical designs for lenses, not actual lenses. Usually it comes up in the context of people looking at the lens length in the patent, and not realizing that length is the optical length from the front-most lens surface to the sensor, not the physical length of the lens that could be produced from that design.

Now, was there a point to your post beyond you showing yourself to be puerile, argumentative, and unable to engage in civil discussion?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 users
Upvote 0

entoman

wildlife photography
May 8, 2015
1,400
1,754
UK
Even those who have not spent tens of thousands of dollars/pounds on Canon gear are entitled to criticize. But if you believe that people are also entitled to draw broad conclusions about the corporate impact of the issues they find distressing, we're going to disagree.

"My R5 overheats, Canon screwed up and needs to fix this!" – fine

"I have read a bunch of reports on the R5 overheating, I'm not going to buy an R5." – fine

"The R5 overheating is a huge problem, I'm going to buy a Sony instead because they don't overheat." – fine (although 'they don't overheat anymore' would be more accurate)

"The R5 overheating issue is a debacle, R5 sales will plummet, everyone will switch to Sony, and Canon will suffer." – asinine (yet an accurate paraphrase of many comments on Internet forums)
We're not going to disagree on that point ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Upvote 0

scyrene

EOS R6
Dec 4, 2013
3,166
1,442
UK
www.flickr.com
Not for a long time. Lenses like the EF 17-40/4L and 200/2.8L would probably fit the bill of mid-price (<$1K) L-series lenses. No weather sealing, though.
I tend to think of the 300 f/4L and 400 f/5.6L as mid range, too - certainly they sat on a tier well below the price of the bigger white lenses.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
Upvote 0

scyrene

EOS R6
Dec 4, 2013
3,166
1,442
UK
www.flickr.com
At least one of the reviews I looked at had a full set of images from the RF100-400mm, taken at several different apertures, and at several different distances.

The text of the reviews stated that the lens needed to be stopped down a full stop in order to get decent sharpness, and also stated that diffraction caused softness at F11 or smaller apertures, and these statements were backed up by the published images. Diffraction softness at F11 was quite pronounced - enough to make the images unusable for me.

There are probably sharper copies out there, but unfortunately most of us don't have the opportunity or time, to test and return multiple copies, in order to find a good copy.
A question regarding diffraction - would it not be the same with the 800 f/11 as any other lens stopped down to that aperture?
 
Upvote 0

entoman

wildlife photography
May 8, 2015
1,400
1,754
UK
A question regarding diffraction - would it not be the same with the 800 f/11 as any other lens stopped down to that aperture?
That's a question for someone more expert on the subject than myself. I think it's dependent on several factors including pixel density and the angle at which the light rays hit the sensor, the latter being determined by the distance between the nodal point of the lens from the sensor plane, and the physical size of the aperture. So it will be affected by the lens design, as well as focal length and aperture.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Upvote 0

AlanF

Desperately seeking birds
CR Pro
Aug 16, 2012
10,504
17,257
That's a question for someone more expert on the subject than myself. I think it's dependent on several factors including pixel density and the angle at which the light rays hit the sensor, the latter being determined by the distance between the nodal point of the lens from the sensor plane, and the physical size of the aperture. So it will be affected by the lens design, as well as focal length and aperture.
Diffraction is independent of the sensor, its pixel density, the angles of which the light rays hit the sensor etc, but depends only on the size and shape of the aperture of the lens. For a perfectly circular aperture - see:

 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Upvote 0

EOS 4 Life

EOS 5D Mark IV
Sep 20, 2020
1,638
1,309
I personally provide direct feedback to Canon, negative and positive, as do many others, in addition to comments made here or on other forums. It's actually to the benefit of everyone that negatives as well as positives are publicly reported too, as it keeps manufacturers on their toes and ultimately results in product improvements.
Quite a lot of the negative feedback that Canon gets is nonsensical.
They seem to do a pretty good job add addressing reasonable concerns.
They do not address them fast enough for everyone's patience level though.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Upvote 0

EOS 4 Life

EOS 5D Mark IV
Sep 20, 2020
1,638
1,309
I'm going to buy a Sony instead because they don't overheat
Sony cameras still overheat.
The biggest problems with the R5 and R6 were the recovery times.
That has mostly been addressed in firmware.
Canon added a high temp shutoff mode to the R5 which is exactly what Sony does.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Upvote 0