Canon will release an RF mount ‘vlogging’ camera in 2022 [CR3]

Czardoom said:

It is quite amazing that people can spend pages and pages of arguments on a subject that they don't know the answers to.
Question to those who feel like that they are on a mission to convince others that the M system is dead and will be discontinued. What exactly are you trying to prove? We don't know the answer as to what will happen to the M system, and yet you seem to be adamant that you do know. Trying to show everyone here that you have brilliant predictive powers? Or what exactly?

What do we know?
The M system makes up 30% of Canon's sales.
The M6 II is apparently discontinued, at least in some markets.
Canon is releasing APS-C cameras.

All the rest is speculation.

Who has the guts to admit they don't actually know what will happen and that all of their arguments regarding the demise of the M system are just a waste of time and effort? And that name-calling and insults when people confront them with the facts are just immature and border on trolling?

Anybody have the guts??

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Definitely agree that no one here knows the fate of the M-series. However, I presume that a VP and country-level CEO for Canon is likely to have at least some knowledge of the fate of the M-series, and one of those individuals explicitly stated the line would see future updates. For him to state that publicly is significant, because he would have known in advance what he could and could not reveal about Canon's plans.

As you say, we know that the M system comprises 30% of Canon's camera sales. Letting that market segment wither away is certainly not in Canon's best interest. Honestly, I'm not sure how it's in anyone's on this forum's best interest to have fewer camera choices. I was completely wrong about Canon launching an APS-C EOS R, but for photographers in general I'm quite happy that I was wrong about that.

I suppose maybe the argument is that if Canon stops making [insert products I don't personally want], then they'll develop and launch [insert products I spend my nights dreaming about fondling], just for me. Lol.

neuroanatomist said:

I was completely wrong about Canon launching an APS-C EOS R, but for photographers in general I'm quite happy that I was wrong about that.

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My first thought: Your account was hacked!
My second: I'm quite speechless ... I never thought you would ever admit a mistake!

Well ... I knew I was wrong with the xitek translation but it was too late to admit!

neuroanatomist said:

Honestly, I'm not sure how it's in anyone's on this forum's best interest to have fewer camera choices.

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I think that was related (not only but also) to me. Let me try to clarify some things:
Yes, I think Canon will offer "fewer camera choices" in the future. This is also regarding to mounts. I have reasons to think so, like you have your reasons not to think so!

But this doesn't mean I am happy about that! If I could decide I would always prefer having more options instead of less. But I can't decide. I have to accept what's been offered. Like you and everyone else I also don't know what Canon will do in the future. All is speculation based on what I see and hear.

I know you (and others) in this forum think I hate the M system. This is not true. I hated how M supporters were talking about supposed RF APS-C cameras over the years. Probably I feel too much malicious joy now that the tables have turned.

If I'm wrong about the future of the M system it would be totally fine because now I already have what I wanted (R7)!

neuroanatomist said:

I suppose maybe the argument is that if Canon stops making [insert products I don't personally want], then they'll develop and launch [insert products I spend my nights dreaming about fondling], just for me. Lol.

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No, the argument is that there is no reason to support two APS-C lines (or even three with EF) and nothing else!

lote82 said:

My first thought: Your account was hacked!
My second: I'm quite speechless ... I never thought you would ever admit a mistake!

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This is simply untrue - Neuro immediately and fully acknowledged his mistake (by which I mean: mistaken opinion) when the R7 and R10 were announced. That is, months ago. As did a bunch of others here (including me) who doubted that an APS-C RF body (and specific lenses) would appear.

All of which clearly affects the medium term future (and 'development') of the M system, but won't have much short term effect, despite the fixations of some posters.

Jethro said:

This is simply untrue - Neuro immediately and fully acknowledged his mistake (by which I mean: mistaken opinion) when the R7 and R10 were announced. That is, months ago. As did a bunch of others here (including me) who doubted that an APS-C RF body (and specific lenses) would appear.

All of which clearly affects the medium term future (and 'development') of the M system, but won't have much short term effect, despite the fixations of some posters.

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I'm sorry, but I'm not aware of every post anybody has made in the last months. But feel free to show me!

Jethro said:

All of which clearly affects the medium term future (and 'development') of the M system, but won't have much short term effect, despite the fixations of some posters.

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I'm sorry, but even with google translator I'm not able to understand what you are trying to say ... what do mean with "fixations of some posters"?
I fixate my posters with UHU Patafix (awesome stuff!), but I don't think this is what you meant!

jam05 said:

m6Ii had not been discontinued globally. Only one or two small markets that dont sell a lot of cameras. Canon management has already debunked that rumor.

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Thank youuuu... Too many are still repeating that lie.

EOS M is not dying without an equivalently-priced RF equivalent, and right now Canon seems to hate the idea of introducing RF in this price bracket (understandable given supply constraints and the much more profitable margins on enthusiast/pro gear).

With that being said my outlook is that EOS M development is finished and they are happy to just keep manufacturing the lenses and bodies as long as they're selling. When that drops off maybe they'll finally introduce budget RF cameras to reinvigorate the lower end market (if that market even exists in five years).

jam05 said:

m6Ii had not been discontinued globally. Only one or two small markets that dont sell a lot of cameras. Canon management has already debunked that rumor.

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Japan is a small market?

jam05 said:

m6Ii had not been discontinued globally. Only one or two small markets that dont sell a lot of cameras. Canon management has already debunked that rumor.

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When Samsung was abandoning their NX system, they denied it for quite a while. Companies often mislead when it suits their purpose.

Bob Howland said:

When Samsung was abandoning their NX system, they denied it for quite a while. Companies often mislead when it suits their purpose.

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When Samsung was abandoning their NX system, what fraction of Samsung’s total corporate revenue did it represent?

The M system accounts for ~4% of Canon’s total corporate revenue. Are you simply being argumentative, or do you actually believe that Canon is purposefully misleading customers while already having decided to abandon 4% of their corporate top line?

Linteria said:

Thank youuuu... Too many are still repeating that lie.

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They are not selling here in HongKong.

neuroanatomist said:

When Samsung was abandoning their NX system, what fraction of Samsung’s total corporate revenue did it represent?

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I don't know ... do you?

neuroanatomist said:

The M system accounts for ~4% of Canon’s total corporate revenue. Are you simply being argumentative, or do you actually believe that Canon is purposefully misleading customers while already having decided to abandon 4% of their corporate top line?

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Two completely different starting points:

1. When Samsung abandoned the NX system they left the whole camera market.

2. If Canon abandons the M system they are able to shift the revenue to the R system.

This is quite exactly what Canon is already doing. It is a slow process which already started by not developing new M products anymore. It is going further by selling the old products till consumer interest dries out. Meanwhile the consumer interest is shifted to new R models that substitute the old M products.

ryanbird said:

They are not selling here in HongKong.

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The M6II is widely available in the US, body in both color options and various lens ± EVF kits, direct from Canon USA as well as from major authorized retailers. In fact, I'm about to order one – I use an M6 for travel, and my oldest child has been using my old M2. Now my middle child has progressed to the point where she an ILC will serve her better than a P&S, so I'll shift the M2 to her, hand down my M6 to my oldest, and replace it with an M6II for myself.

neuroanatomist said:

Although I’ll generally continue ignoring your drivel, I will on occasion correct blatant misinformation when you post it.

The actual source of the interview is here:

佳能：EOS R7/R10是对EOS R系统的补充，研发重心将转向EOS R_器材_色影无忌

I have colleagues who can properly translate Chinese, probably the person who runs CanonWatch does, as well.

Short of that, find this section of the actual source, it’s about 40% of the way down the page:



…and put it through Google translate:



That’s an even stronger affirmation of the M series’ future upgrades that CanonWatch’s translation.

So, who is being fooled? The only thing hilarious here is your lack of comprehension.

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neuroanatomist said:

Short of that, find this section of the actual source, it’s about 40% of the way down the page:



…and put it through Google translate:



That’s an even stronger affirmation of the M series’ future upgrades that CanonWatch’s translation.

So, who is being fooled? The only thing hilarious here is your lack of comprehension.

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What if we just underestimate what Canon marketing speach reflects in "future upgrade" to the EOS-M line? Might it also mean its continuation in an RF APS-C form? To answer my own rhetoric question - size wise, they can still get smaler than even R10 and some smaller RF-S lens might appear. I know that it will never be as small as an EOS-M equivalent, but maybe small enough for the market to buy the idea.

Where the idea does not work for me, though, is the price. If they would go under 800$, they would undermine the price point of R10 and other EOS-R APS-C cameras?

-pekr- said:

What if we just underestimate what Canon marketing speach reflects in "future upgrade" to the EOS-M line? Might it also mean its continuation in an RF APS-C form? To answer my own rhetoric question - size wise, they can still get smaler than even R10 and some smaller RF-S lens might appear. I know that it will never be as small as an EOS-M equivalent, but maybe small enough for the market to buy the idea.

Where the idea does not work for me, though, is the price. If they would go under 800$, they would undermine the price point of R10 and other EOS-R APS-C cameras?

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If they are M200 style cameras, with a single dial, without an EVF and a very simplified user interface, they won't directly compete with the R10. Just look at the amount of "a real photographer uses a viewfinder" gatekeeping we get on this forum

neuroanatomist said:

The M6II is widely available in the US, body in both color options and various lens ± EVF kits, direct from Canon USA as well as from major authorized retailers. In fact, I'm about to order one – I use an M6 for travel, and my oldest child has been using my old M2. Now my middle child has progressed to the point where she an ILC will serve her better than a P&S, so I'll shift the M2 to her, hand down my M6 to my oldest, and replace it with an M6II for myself.

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After adding an M6II to my cart, it occurred to me that I’ve also got an EOS R that I am planning to sell, and an RF 24-240 on that would also be a possibility for my oldest. So I put the M18-150 on the M6 and the RF 24-105/4 (not too different from the 24-240) on the R and asked her preference.

Turned out her preference was just to swap with her sister and use a P&S for simplicity and pocketability. Best laid plans and all that…

neuroanatomist said:

Canon management stated the M line would be continued and suggested there would be new M-series products coming.

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Inaction speaks louder than words.

For comparison:

"Asked to comment on a report by respected US website dpreview.com, which believes the Nikon 1 system is no longer in development, Brinkman said: ‘No, it’s not ending. Those are rumours. You can expect the J series especially to continue. This is really our mainstream model."

- Nikon Europe product manager Jordi Brinkman, 2016

John Wilde said:

Inaction speaks louder than words.

For comparison:

"Asked to comment on a report by respected US website dpreview.com, which believes the Nikon 1 system is no longer in development, Brinkman said: ‘No, it’s not ending. Those are rumours. You can expect the J series especially to continue. This is really our mainstream model."

- Nikon Europe product manager Jordi Brinkman, 2016

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The Nikon 1 never topped any best-seller lists, and certainly didn't comprise a reasonable fraction of Nikon's corporate bottom line. You're comparing apples to, well, not oranges...maybe to the sad little clementines accidentally left in the Xmas stocking that was stored in the hot attic for 11 months before being found. Yuck.

The M system is Canon's very successful attempt to penetrate the crop MILC market and is a global best-seller, has been for several years, and accounts for 30% of Canon's camera sales and ~4% total corporate revenue, while the Nikon 1 system was their attempt at penetrating the crop sensor MILC market that manifestly failed.

EOS 4 Life said:

Japan is a small market?

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CIPA Mirrorless Shipments, in Yen, Jan-May 2022
Japan Mirrorless Camera Shipments, in Yen: 14,115,156
Mirrorless Camera Shipments, Except For Japan, in Yen: 150,442,479

maybe before Canon starts bringing out more new camera models they ought to think hard about fulfilling the thousands of backorders on cameras like the R7 and others.. supply chain backlog is one thing.. adding to the mess at the expense of their customers that Canon seems to promote is another... all the rest are in the same boat--Nikon et al

neuroanatomist said:

After adding an M6II to my cart, it occurred to me that I’ve also got an EOS R that I am planning to sell, and an RF 24-240 on that would also be a possibility for my oldest. So I put the M18-150 on the M6 and the RF 24-105/4 (not too different from the 24-240) on the R and asked her preference.

Turned out her preference was just to swap with her sister and use a P&S for simplicity and pocketability. Best laid plans and all that…

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What a photographic family!