Another announcement cycle is out of the way, so what’s next from Canon for the EOS R system?

I just want a true RF 40mm pancake lens pls

bf said:

We will laugh hard if a an M6 mK3 shows up!

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I'll laugh and I'll preorder one lol. I hope we get a final 'one last ride' EOS M camera with all the bells and whistles. An EVF-less vlogging RF camera is probably on the way though, but I can't imagine how bad it will look with a huge mount on a tiny body, and those ugly tapered RF-S lenses.

definedphotography said:

Not sure if this is possible given the R5 has older hardware. It may be able to add a few of the new shiny AF things, but this is Canon. They will save it for a refreshed camera.

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Please list the "older hardware" in the R5. The processor hasn't been updated for instance.

entoman said:

I think we'll have to wait until the end of 2023 for a R5 Mkii announcement. It wouldn't surprise me if it had some kind of active cooling system. I agree about the hardware issue - the AF improvements and things like 40fps, "moving subject HDR" and AF improvements found in the R6ii are apparently due to new hardware. There may be a couple more firmware updates for the R5, but I don't think there will be any more added features or capabilities - just bug fixes and very minor tweaks.

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A 24 Mpx sensor should be able to process data per frame about 2x faster than a 45 Mpx sensor because there is about 50% less data to manage without any hardware improvement. For example, 40 fps with 24 Mpx is shifting about the same amount of data per second as 20 fps with 45 Mpx. So, what hardware improvements are there between the R5 and R6II?

AlanF said:

A 24 Mpx sensor should be able to process data per frame about 2x faster than a 45 Mpx sensor because there is about 50% less data to manage without any hardware improvement. For example, 40 fps with 24 Mpx is shifting about the same amount of data per second as 20 fps with 45 Mpx. So, what hardware improvements are there between the R5 and R6II?

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Can't remember where I read it/heard it, as I've looked at several R6ii reviews, but one of them definitely stated that the improvements were the result of a "new chip" (I understand the processor is the same as in the R6, so it may refer to a sub chip of some kind, or they may have just jumped to that conclusion).

EOS 4 Life said:

120-700

Canon Patent Application: Canon RF 100-600 and RF 100-700mm

This next patent application describes what probably is a competing lens to the Canon RF 100-500mm L lens. This patent application deals with a Canon RF 100-600mm Lens and Canon RF 100-700mm lens. Would this be developed now that the 100-500 is coming out? It's really hard to say - is there...

www.canonnews.com

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While these sound interesting, they would be larger and heavier than the RF 100-500 as their maximum aperture is comparatively wider.

entoman said:

It's amazing value. It's a professional level camera. The 5DMkiii and 5DMkiv were both launched at USD3499. The R6 Mkii is far superior and far more versatile than either, and is an absolute bargain at USD2599. I'm extremely tempted to get one as a backup to my R5 - the only thing that stops me is that the R5 will probably get an upgrade next year, so I'm hanging in for that instead.

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5Div is now USD2700 and R6ii is definitely better in all ways except for battery life and perhaps a level of weather sealing. The transition from OVF to current EVF technology seems to be pretty universal now.

The R6ii's price outside of the US is definitely not a bargain compared to R5 though. 50% R5 premium in the US is not translating to the same premium outside of the US. I know which one I would take given the 10% R5 premium in Australia for instance.

There is still no replacement for full frame R/RP @ USD1800/USD1000 level. The 5Div was announced in 2016 and R in 2018. The 6Dii in 2017 and RP in 2019. Canon's ~4 year refresh cycle would mean the R is definitely up for replacement and the R6ii is way outside of that price point. If you use the sensor age though, 6 years for 5Div and 5 for 6Dii makes them quite old now.

Does anyone have a good idea of how the R/RP stack up against their full frame competition at that price point?

entoman said:

I think we'll have to wait until the end of 2023 for a R5 Mkii announcement. It wouldn't surprise me if it had some kind of active cooling system. I agree about the hardware issue - the AF improvements and things like 40fps, "moving subject HDR" and AF improvements found in the R6ii are apparently due to new hardware. There may be a couple more firmware updates for the R5, but I don't think there will be any more added features or capabilities - just bug fixes and very minor tweaks.

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I’m happy to wait another 18 months for an R5II. Just gives Canon more time for improvements. I’d prefer longer cycles rather than the minimal changes of the R6II.

Canon Rumors Guy said:

So far, our roadmap has proven to be extremely accurate, only missing on some lens speeds.

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Snort!
The "Roadmap" list is from Nov-2020 and was meant to be updated subsequent to that.
The RF5.2mm wasn't on the roadmap until it was basically released. Nokishita first tweeted it 2-Oct-2020 and announced 6-October before the roadmap post in November. Hard to claim accuracy in this case.
The RF18-45mm is still on the list but added to the RF-S list after the roadmap was updated. Should we still be expecting a RF (not RF-S) version of the 18-45mm?

The RF300mm/2.8L still isn't on the roadmap but you keep mentioning it so is it forecast? Should it be on the roadmap?

Lenses that should be on the roadmap:
There is no roadmap for a wide angle lens for an APS-C sensor eg 10-22mm copied across from the EF-S lens equivalent so there is no wide angle option for R7/R10/R100 users. It would not be a L lens a la 10-24mmL
There is no pancake lens for street shooters. The EF40mm doubles in cost and size when added to a R body.

If you want to track accuracy, add the date that the forecast lens was added to the roadmap list to compare against the announcement date
Even add the patent date which would be great to see the evolution

David - Sydney said:

5Div is now USD2700 and R6ii is definitely better in all ways except for battery life and perhaps a level of weather sealing. The transition from OVF to current EVF technology seems to be pretty universal now.

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I'd agree with that, although I still like an OVF more than an EVF. An OVF has zero lag, and shows me the world as I see it. But much of the tech found in MILCs can't be used in DSLRs, so while they continue to sell in high numbers, it's pretty clear that apart from possible "special editions", only Pentax will continue the fine tradition.

David - Sydney said:

There is still no replacement for full frame R/RP @ USD1800/USD1000 level.

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I don't expect a direct replacement for the RP - Canon will try for a sub $1000 starter model which may omit the EVF, as the younger folk have been brought up on smartphones and will prefer to compose the same way. I don't think there will be a replacement for the R - the best you can hope for is that the original R6 will drop in price to "R" level. And that is a much better camera than the old R. Just my opinion, of course. Maybe Canon see the crop R10 as an "R replacement", who knows?

David - Sydney said:

Canon's ~4 year refresh cycle would mean the R is definitely up for replacement and the R6ii is way outside of that price point.

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I think the concept of a *regular* refresh cycle is more or less obsolete. The R5 and R6 were announced on the same day, but while Canon rightly decided that the R6 needed an urgent upgrade, I can't see an R5 Mkii being announced for another year. Models will be reviewed individually, and refreshed at varying times.

unfocused said:

I’m happy to wait another 18 months for an R5II. Just gives Canon more time for improvements. I’d prefer longer cycles rather than the minimal changes of the R6II.

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I'm not quite that patient - I'm happy to wait a year. But I need/want a second RF body - and a R6ii fits the bill better than an R7 or another R5. Right now there are other priorities for my money though - like travel.

entoman said:

I'm not quite that patient - I'm happy to wait a year. But I need/want a second RF body - and a R6ii fits the bill better than an R7 or another R5. Right now there are other priorities for my money though - like travel.

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I'm the same way as you. I decided to preorder the R6MII and will most likely sell it when the R5MII or R1 gets announced. The worst you're going to lose investment wise is about $300-500.

R1 or R5s
Going to be a hard decision!

Very happy with my current 50mp stills that get downsized to 5500px on the long edge

entoman said:

But much of the tech found in MILCs can't be used in DSLRs, so while they continue to sell in high numbers, it's pretty clear that apart from possible "special editions", only Pentax will continue the fine tradition.

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In theory, all the mirrorless tech is available when a DSLR is in live view mode. If I recall correctly, the 1DXiii has better AF performance/focus points when in liveview compared to using the OVF.

entoman said:

I don't expect a direct replacement for the RP - Canon will try for a sub $1000 starter model which may omit the EVF, as the younger folk have been brought up on smartphones and will prefer to compose the same way.

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I have no problems with a replacement RP not having an EVF similar to M200. Makes sense to keep costs down and bridge the gap with the phone users.
The RP probably is still great value at that price point.
The key thing for me is keeping full frame as I would like a backup body but not require separate lenses for wide angle which an APS-C sensor would require.

entoman said:

I don't think there will be a replacement for the R - the best you can hope for is that the original R6 will drop in price to "R" level. And that is a much better camera than the old R. Just my opinion, of course. Maybe Canon see the crop R10 as an "R replacement", who knows?

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Without the R model, there is a massive gap in the segmentation from USD1000 to USD2500 for R6ii. I believe that bringing the R6 down to USD1800 would be an error as the difference in features between R6 and R6ii isn't that significant unless they hobbled it somehow eg frame rate.

entoman said:

I think the concept of a *regular* refresh cycle is more or less obsolete. The R5 and R6 were announced on the same day, but while Canon rightly decided that the R6 needed an urgent upgrade, I can't see an R5 Mkii being announced for another year. Models will be reviewed individually, and refreshed at varying times.

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Perhaps. All the data points we have are in the past. The R6ii is the first update within ~2 years so it is currently an outlier. Without more data we cannot assume a 4 year refresh cycle being "obsolete" when there are existing models with >4 years since their last update.

David - Sydney said:

In theory, all the mirrorless tech is available when a DSLR is in live view mode. If I recall correctly, the 1DXiii has better AF performance/focus points when in liveview compared to using the OVF.

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Yep, in *theory*, but in *practice* live-view on a DSLR is slow, noisy, and incredibly cumbersome. Personally I find the live-view on my 5DMkiv to be pretty awful, almost unbearable, compared to my R5. Progress is being made with EVFs, and I'm confident that within 3-4 years MILCs will have EVFs with higher resolution, faster refresh, zero blackout, more natural rendition and close to zero lag.

... but there are times when I feel like rushing out and buying a Pentax and 2 or 3 lenses, just for the pure fun of using a good old DSLR.

entoman said:

Yep, in *theory*, but in *practice* live-view on a DSLR is slow, noisy, and incredibly cumbersome. Personally I find the live-view on my 5DMkiv to be pretty awful, almost unbearable, compared to my R5. Progress is being made with EVFs, and I'm confident that within 3-4 years MILCs will have EVFs with higher resolution, faster refresh, zero blackout, more natural rendition and close to zero lag.

... but there are times when I feel like rushing out and buying a Pentax and 2 or 3 lenses, just for the pure fun of using a good old DSLR.

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Agreed... it is interesting that I can increase the refresh rate on my R5 EVF but I haven't felt the need to do it yet. Battery life is also impacted of course.
Resolution is increasing which isn't a bad thing bar power usage.
The devil is in the details though rather than the official spec sheet ....
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1694387 shows how the EVF resolution etc on the A1 changes depending on refresh rate and even when focusing and even when in playback mode

entoman said:

Yep, in *theory*, but in *practice* live-view on a DSLR is slow, noisy, and incredibly cumbersome. Personally I find the live-view on my 5DMkiv to be pretty awful, almost unbearable, compared to my R5.

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On the 700D what you said is correct (No DPAF), but on the 90D the live view is very quick and not noisy, the 5DMKiv should be the same? I sometimes use live view when the OVF has trouble focusing on a subject at a far distance.

Stig Nygaard said:

So what happened to rumors of an EOS R replacement? A new fullframe camera that will "sit below the Canon EOS R6" and maybe to be named R8?
Just curious. I'm not potential buyer.

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Totally agree. I would welcome a replacement of the R mainly for landscape photographers which do not need all the expensive features of a sport camera nor the advanced video features.
Also what about a multiplier compatible with the 70-200 f 2.8 ?

I'd like to see an R5II early summer!

Has there many any more rumors about some really unique telephoto lenses. I seem to remember a thread about a design that used spotting scope tech to shorten and lighten the lenses. Any rumors about any new DO super tele?

Why would Canon bring to market this R100 without cheaper prime APSC lens first to address the R10 and R7? My reason for not buying the R10 and instead I bought another M50. If they want to sell the FF $2k-$3k primes already available, why bother making a low end R (No lens) and just keep the M series with some new updates for the vlog market like 4K non cropped to compete with more features than say the Sony ZV-E10?

Then concentrate on the higher end, something in 60mpx-100mpx medium format but smaller than say the R3. Something that a prospective Leica or Hasselblad buyer might be enticed to buy instead? Just wondering aloud.

Another thing that seems no camera mfg addresses with all the vloggers complaints I hear over and over are better audio preamps for hybrid cameras so if a new M6-mk3 or R100, why allow 3rd parties microphones sticking out on top and not "one up" Sony and their deadcat stereo doo-dad? or partner with a Japanese audio company like Roland, Boss, or Tascam or Shure preamp board/chips embedded. Or built in wifi transmitter for clip on lavalier?