The Canon EOS R8 will be announced at CP+ in February

AlanF

Desperately seeking birds
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The R5 is such a good camera that anything I'd get as a 2nd body pales in comparison :)
I sometimes think that the best back-up for the R5 is another R5! It really is a class act. I do like the R7, however, and with the RF 100-400 is what I grab when I go out for a walk. But, for more demanding activities it is the R5.
 
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entoman

wildlife photography
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The R5 is such a good camera that anything I'd get as a 2nd body pales in comparison :)
Yep, that's why I haven't added a second RF body yet.

The R7 is nice, but the differing ergonomics are undesirable when switching back and forth between R7 and my R5.
The R6ii is great, but a second (used) R5 would cost about the same, and be more versatile.

But it seems daft to have 2 identical bodies, when the second one would serve mostly as an emergency backup.
So most likely I'll eventually end up with a R5 Mkii, and retain the R5 as backup.
 
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So yet another FSI sensored camera(while competition(Fuji) has been offering BSI sensors in sub $1000 cameras for years at this point)
Canon clearly has demonstrated, that they can design FSI sensors, that totally outperform BSI sensors (see the Canon R6 Mk II for example).

There is no clear advantage between BSI and FSI !!

You need to stop confusing BSI and stacked BSI sensors !!

Yes, stacked BSI sensors like in the EOS R3 have clear advantages, but if you do not need a stacked sensor, then you don't need BSI nor will you get any particular advantage from BSI.

/M
 
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entoman

wildlife photography
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I sometimes think that the best back-up for the R5 is another R5! It really is a class act. I do like the R7, however, and with the RF 100-400 is what I grab when I go out for a walk. But, for more demanding activities it is the R5.
I'm finding (to my surprise) that the RF100-400mm is surprising good for "near macro" photography.

I've just returned from a butterfly photography trip to West Papua, and found the zoom much more useful than my RF 100mm macro, simply because it allows a much greater working distance from nervous insects.

It focuses down to about half life-size, which with the 45MP of the R5 is ample even for small lycaenid butterflies. The AF is still fast and accurate at F8 in the dim light of the rainforest interior, and the stabilisation is good enough to allow a good percentage of shots taken at 400mm, 1/125 @ F8 to be pin sharp and full of detail. It does entail stretching the ISO up to 3200 or 4000, but with Topaz DeNoise AI it isn't much of a problem to get sharp, clean, noise-free images
 
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photophil

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I'm finding (to my surprise) that the RF100-400mm is surprising good for "near macro" photography.

I've just returned from a butterfly photography trip to West Papua, and found the zoom much more useful than my RF 100mm macro, simply because it allows a much greater working distance from nervous insects.

It focuses down to about half life-size, which with the 45MP of the R5 is ample even for small lycaenid butterflies. The AF is still fast and accurate at F8 in the dim light of the rainforest interior, and the stabilisation is good enough to allow a good percentage of shots taken at 400mm, 1/125 @ F8 to be pin sharp and full of detail. It does entail stretching the ISO up to 3200 or 4000, but with Topaz DeNoise AI it isn't much of a problem to get sharp, clean, noise-free images
The Raynox DCR250 works well on the RF100-400 too, at least at 400mm where it produces >3:1 magnification and IQ is decent, at least on the 20mpx R6 sensor. Below 400 there is severe vignetting though.

This is the combination I take with me when I cannot make up my mind whether I want to shoot only macro or only 'regular' wildlife.
 
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Stig Nygaard

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Personally I don't care if R8 is an APS-C or fullframe camera. I don't expect R8 to be a camera I want no matter what.

But I just wonder if being an APS-C camera is part of the rumour, or if it is just guessing from CR? Reading post, it sounds like that part is just speculations/guessing?

I could easily imagine an R8 being a fullframe camera and closest thing to a "replacement" for the EOS R. And in that case probably with 30+ megapixels.
 
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neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
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The fact that Canon is abandoning customers with EF-format cameras in favor of RF-format and ceasing to offer new EF lenses and bodies makes me regret trusting them and buying an EOS 5D Mark III.

I don't like the RF series LCD viewfinders which are bad for the eyes. I will not change either my equipment which cost me a fortune to adopt the range without RF mirror. I will abandon Canon, as they sadly abandoned me. And for this reason I will certainly never buy the Canon brand, which from my point of view abused the trust I had in them ;-(
What brand will you buy, then? Maybe you’ve missed that the industry has mostly switched to mirrorless.

The bigger question is what are you doing here on the internet? It’s a modern sort of place. Why don’t you grab some foolscap and a fountain pen and write a letter to a friend? Or just relax and watch some TV…be sure to adjust the rabbit ears when you get up to change the channel.
 
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AlanF

Desperately seeking birds
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I'm finding (to my surprise) that the RF100-400mm is surprising good for "near macro" photography.

I've just returned from a butterfly photography trip to West Papua, and found the zoom much more useful than my RF 100mm macro, simply because it allows a much greater working distance from nervous insects.

It focuses down to about half life-size, which with the 45MP of the R5 is ample even for small lycaenid butterflies. The AF is still fast and accurate at F8 in the dim light of the rainforest interior, and the stabilisation is good enough to allow a good percentage of shots taken at 400mm, 1/125 @ F8 to be pin sharp and full of detail. It does entail stretching the ISO up to 3200 or 4000, but with Topaz DeNoise AI it isn't much of a problem to get sharp, clean, noise-free images
I've noticed you have been quiet and guessed you have been on one of your jaunts - lucky man! I've been using both the RF 100-400mm and RF 100-500 for near macro. Put the RF 2x on the RF 100-500mm and it's even more macro. That TC works very well close up, unlike the EF 2xTCIII on the EF 100-400mm which I found soft at very close distances.
 
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john1970

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The fact that Canon is abandoning customers with EF-format cameras in favor of RF-format and ceasing to offer new EF lenses and bodies makes me regret trusting them and buying an EOS 5D Mark III.

I don't like the RF series LCD viewfinders which are bad for the eyes. I will not change either my equipment which cost me a fortune to adopt the range without RF mirror. I will abandon Canon, as they sadly abandoned me. And for this reason I will certainly never buy the Canon brand, which from my point of view abused the trust I had in them ;-(
Just FYI every major FF DSLR manufacturer is abandoning R&D for DSLR and embracing mirrorless cameras as the future. The EF mount was introduced in 1987 and new lenses for the EF mount were released as late as Dec 2018. Having a mount in production for three decades is a very long time. Do release that all EF glass is fully compatible with adapters to any EOS R mirrorless camera.
 
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entoman

wildlife photography
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The fact that Canon is abandoning customers with EF-format cameras in favor of RF-format and ceasing to offer new EF lenses and bodies makes me regret trusting them and buying an EOS 5D Mark III.

I don't like the RF series LCD viewfinders which are bad for the eyes. I will not change either my equipment which cost me a fortune to adopt the range without RF mirror. I will abandon Canon, as they sadly abandoned me. And for this reason I will certainly never buy the Canon brand, which from my point of view abused the trust I had in them ;-(
Canon isn't abandoning customers by switching to mirrorless - the entire industry with the exception of Pentax switched to mirrorless some years ago. Canon, like all businesses, exists to keep its employees in work, and to make money for its shareholders, and that means they have to meet the demands of their customers, the vast majority of which decided long ago that mirrorless enables better specified cameras.

It can take a while to adapt to an EVF - I used Canon and Nikon DSLRs for many years and I found it awkward to adapt at first, but after a couple of months you get used to the different way of seeing things, and EVFs do not cause eye problems, at least not any more so than squinting to look through binoculars, telescopes or DSLR viewfinders.

So instead of going into a sulk and cursing Canon, perhaps you should sell your grampohone and your horse and cart, and move to the future, which offers a great deal more benefit than you seem willing to acknowledge.
 
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AlanF

Desperately seeking birds
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I had to remove a snake(Russell's viper) from a house in my neighbourhood, here is comparison between Xt30(3 year old camera) vs R7(with a "new" sensor according to Canon)(when it comes to APS-C systems Sony and Nikon both are in same boat as Canon i.e. they treat these cameras like unwanted Step child(though Sony has built up few lenses for the system over the years while they keep the best tech for their FF bodies)). Having BSI sensor certainly improves IQ compared to Front side illuminated sensor. Stacked sensors are different to BSI(and it seems they certainly are more expensive to produce currently) and they seem to be more suited for applications which require faster read speeds(sports/wildlife oriented cameras this generation around all have stacked BSI sensors).
View attachment 206905


Edit: Just for comparison added 90D into comparison with R7 and XT30.
View attachment 206906
There's something odd about the Fuji-XT30 having such a good DR vs iso plot. It actually sticks out like a sore thumb. Here are the XT-30 vs the R7 and Sony A1 and 7RM4 in APS-C mode. The two Sony state-of-the-art BSI sensors are essentially the same as the FSI R7 (and also the R5 in APS-C mode). Either Fuji has a breakthrough in the quantum efficiency of its sensor so it is greater than 1, or perhaps their quoted isos are out - Bill Claff points out he uses the manufacturers isos and not the measured ones. Anyway, the Canon FSI sensors have the same DR as the Sony BSI.

Screenshot 2022-12-27 at 13.20.20.png
 
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koenkooi

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I had to remove a snake(Russell's viper) from a house in my neighbourhood, here is comparison between Xt30(3 year old camera) vs R7(with a "new" sensor according to Canon)[...]
The R7 uses the same sensor as the M6II/90D, which is over 3 years old now. I couldn't find any differences between the M6II and R7 CR3s when shooting them side by side. There is a huuuuuge difference in the AF software between those 2 cameras.
 
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entoman

wildlife photography
May 8, 2015
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I've noticed you have been quiet and guessed you have been on one of your jaunts - lucky man! I've been using both the RF 100-400mm and RF 100-500 for near macro. Put the RF 2x on the RF 100-500mm and it's even more macro. That TC works very well close up, unlike the EF 2xTCIII on the EF 100-400mm which I found soft at very close distances.
Hi Alan, yes I'm sure that the RF2x on the RF100-500mm would provide even sharper shots and a bit more macro, but the primary reason why I bought the RF100-400mm in the first place (aside from your recommendation) was to keep the size and weight minimal. Travelling in West Papua involved a lot of domestic flights on small aircraft with limited luggage allowances. Even more importantly, it's pretty tiring for a 72 year old to hike for hours at a time through sweltering humid rainforest even with an RF100-400mm attached, and carrying my relatively heavy RF100-500mm would have been quite challenging. This is a Hypochrysops species, photographed at Fak Fak, 400mm, 1/180, F11, ISO 1000.

Hypochrysops.png
 
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Kit.

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Apr 25, 2011
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The fact that Canon is abandoning customers with EF-format cameras in favor of RF-format and ceasing to offer new EF lenses and bodies makes me regret trusting them and buying an EOS 5D Mark III.
That's nothing! I trusted them and bought an EOS 5D Mark II.

(Which is still working as a webcam, by the way)
 
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neuroanatomist

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One of Canon’s next camera bodies will be announced ahead of CP+ in February.
CP+ is aimed at video. To me, that suggests the R8 will be a vlogging-type camera. I wonder if the ‘bit of a different form factor and will have a new kind of flippy screen’ are relative to other R cameras, e.g. the R8 will be like the M6 II with a screen that flips up instead of out (or better up or out) and no built-in EVF hump to block the screen when flipped up.

Same 24 MP sensor as the R10 but with IBIS. I think there’s definitely pricing room between the R10 and R7 for another APS-C body.

I fully admit that my own desires are influencing this prediction. A small, light EVF-less body with an RF mount would be a great travel pairing for my R3.
 
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AlanF

Desperately seeking birds
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Hi Alan, yes I'm sure that the RF2x on the RF100-500mm would provide even sharper shots and a bit more macro, but the primary reason why I bought the RF100-400mm in the first place (aside from your recommendation) was to keep the size and weight minimal. Travelling in West Papua involved a lot of domestic flights on small aircraft with limited luggage allowances. Even more importantly, it's pretty tiring for a 72 year old to hike for hours at a time through sweltering humid rainforest even with an RF100-400mm attached, and carrying my relatively heavy RF100-500mm would have been quite challenging. This is a Hypochrysops species, photographed at Fak Fak, 400mm, 1/180, F11, ISO 1000.

View attachment 206909
I am even older than you! I can still easily manage the RF 100-500 but maybe I should consider taking instead a 2nd RF 100-400mm on the R5 for me as well on the R7 for my wife on ourbig birding trip next March. It makes travel easier. I certainly would if the prime objective was insects.
 
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I had to remove a snake(Russell's viper) from a house in my neighbourhood
I really hope you're OK.

here is comparison between Xt30(3 year old camera) vs R7(with a "new" sensor according to Canon)
...
Having BSI sensor certainly improves IQ compared to Front side illuminated sensor.
Well, diagrams, diagrams, and no real images side by side. Certainly but not significantly as I can see. Anyway, I can keep calm I don't have to worry about BSI unless I will adopt rangefinder lenses. I finally recalled a thing where BSI really matters compared to FSI — reducing color shift and frame edge smearing with them.

Stacked sensors are different to BSI(and it seems they certainly are more expensive to produce currently) and they seem to be more suited for applications which require faster read speeds(sports/wildlife oriented cameras this generation around all have stacked BSI sensors).
I realize that. My confuse was over recently.
 
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Chaitanya

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There's something odd about the Fuji-XT30 having such a good DR vs iso plot. It actually sticks out like a sore thumb. Here are the XT-30 vs the R7 and Sony A1 and 7RM4 in APS-C mode. The two Sony state-of-the-art BSI sensors are essentially the same as the FSI R7 (and also the R5 in APS-C mode). Either Fuji has a breakthrough in the quantum efficiency of its sensor so it is greater than 1, or perhaps their quoted isos are out - Bill Claff points out he uses the manufacturers isos and not the measured ones. Anyway, the Canon FSI sensors have the same DR as the Sony BSI.

View attachment 206907
That A74 is certainly a oddity, as its barely better than A73 and above ISO800 it lags a little behind its predecessor. Fuji XH2 and XT30 almost have similar performance at lower ISO, it certainly seems like Fuji had something with XT30.
screenshot.png
CP+ is aimed at video. To me, that suggests the R8 will be a vlogging-type camera. I wonder if the ‘bit of a different form factor and will have a new kind of flippy screen’ are relative to other R cameras, e.g. the R8 will be like the M6 II with a screen that flips up instead of out (or better up or out) and no built-in EVF hump to block the screen when flipped up.

Same 24 MP sensor as the R10 but with IBIS. I think there’s definitely pricing room between the R10 and R7 for another APS-C body.

I fully admit that my own desires are influencing this prediction. A small, light EVF-less body with an RF mount would be a great travel pairing for my R3.
Competitor to Sony ZV and Nikon Z30 but with excellent DPAF.
The R7 uses the same sensor as the M6II/90D, which is over 3 years old now. I couldn't find any differences between the M6II and R7 CR3s when shooting them side by side. There is a huuuuuge difference in the AF software between those 2 cameras.
AF improvements are thanks to new CPU(Digic-X) being employed by R7, also Canon reps were telling press that sensor in R7 is brand "new" and hasn't been used before.
I really hope you're OK.
I am fine, I usually get rescue calls and these days I dont go out farther than 1km of my house to rescue animals(in old days I would have travelled 40-50kms for rescue calls).
 
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neuroanatomist

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AF improvements are thanks to new CPU(Digic-X) being employed by R7, also Canon reps were telling press that sensor in R7 is brand "new" and hasn't been used before.
Sure, but for example a tweak of 1-2 nm in the spectral transmission curves of the CFA is all that’s needed to make a sensor ‘new, never before used’ while still being a recycled sensor for all practical purposes.
 
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